Arizona: Immigration Options

[bfloomis]

wow, i must be missing something. I would think that most Americans would want secure borders and to keep ILLEGAL immigrants out. Yet, there's this STATE law in Arizona (because the federal govt, past and present) won't enforce the current federal immigration laws.

I watch multiple news sources and see these protests and these people actually think they are entitled to be here because they somehow made it here. They are also afraid of racial profiling....this, i can see their concern. However, if i'm ever pulled over by the police (not that I drive fast or anything), i'm required to have ID.

Somehow, if for whatever reason, I wanted to "immigrate" to a foreign land, I doubt they'd let me stay once they realize i haven't gone through the legal process.

amazing.

[lorry]

wow, i must be missing something. I would think that most Americans would want secure borders and to keep ILLEGAL immigrants out. Yet, there's this STATE law in Arizona (because the federal govt, past and present) won't enforce the current federal immigration laws.

I watch multiple news sources and see these protests and these people actually think they are entitled to be here because they somehow made it here. They are also afraid of racial profiling....this, i can see their concern. However, if i'm ever pulled over by the police (not that I drive fast or anything), i'm required to have ID.

Somehow, if for whatever reason, I wanted to "immigrate" to a foreign land, I doubt they'd let me stay once they realize i haven't gone through the legal process.

amazing.

I'm all for all these illegals to go home and clean up their own country. If they think this country is so good for them to come here illegally, then it is better if they stay in Mexico and create the same basis for their own country and live in their own culture instead of trying to destroy ours.

Since Mexico is now bringing illegals over via coyotes, bringing drugs and bringing violence over our boarders and in doing so bringing down areas of the U.S. to 3rd-world level, I'm for any level of government to stop this crap, no matter what it takes. Hooray for Arizona...hope Texas and California follow quickly. Illegal is illegal. Seal those borders! Anyone sneaking over...shoot them, even if it is only a tranquilizer to allow capture and processing. This whole mess is just that...a mess! We need to mop it up fast.

In addition to immediately sealing the boarders, we must rescind the Constitutional Amendment that makes anyone born on U.S. soil an automatic citizen. NO! IMHO, we have to go back to one must be born of 2 parents that are both already citizens in order to be a citizen. Otherwise, one must go through the process, providing one's parents are "legal" immigrants. I don't know who was dumb enough to come up with this, but it happened way back when immigration was very high, but it was also controlled and legal. We have outlived the usefulness of this law and need to change it back.

[terijef]

I'm all for all these illegals to go home and clean up their own country. If they think this country is so good for them to come here illegally, then it is better if they stay in Mexico and create the same basis for their own country and live in their own culture instead of trying to destroy ours.

Since Mexico is now bringing illegals over via coyotes, bringing drugs and bringing violence over our boarders and in doing so bringing down areas of the U.S. to 3rd-world level, I'm for any level of government to stop this crap, no matter what it takes. Hooray for Arizona...hope Texas and California follow quickly. Illegal is illegal. Seal those borders! Anyone sneaking over...shoot them, even if it is only a tranquilizer to allow capture and processing. This whole mess is just that...a mess! We need to mop it up fast.

In addition to immediately sealing the boarders, we must rescind the Constitutional Amendment that makes anyone born on U.S. soil an automatic citizen. NO! IMHO, one must be born of 2 parents that are both already citizens in order to be a citizen. Otherwise, one must go through the process, providing one's parents are "legal" immigrants. I don't know who was dumb enough to come up with this, but it happened way back when immigration was very high, but it was also controlled and legal. We have outlived the usefulness of this law and need to change it back.

Repeal the 14th Amendment? Are you serious or just bigoted and stupid?

[Garianne]

Jeff,

You are ranting. Why not simply explain why someone might or might not be wrong?

[terijef]

Jeff,

You are ranting. Why not simply explain why someone might or might not be wrong?

I'm sorry Gari, but Lincoln fought a Civil War in part to obtain the protections of the 14th amendment and lorry thinks they are dumb and irrelevant now. What else needs be said?

[Garianne]

Hmmm....See it looks like you are being both rude and patronizing. You have left Brad out.

There may be a legitimate argument that since a baby has arrived illegally, it cannot be granted the rights and privileges that under the 14th that would be the child's had it been born here by accident or invitation. It is open to interpretation for one simple reason: The status of American Indians who have to decide at some point or another to be citizens (18 or 21) or remain on the reservation. If they were given automatic citizenship at birth there would be no argument. The distinction is thus arguably NOT a right with birth but legal status. If it applies to
one why not all?

[Boss Mare]

I have a lot of sympathy for the people of Arizona who are sick and tired of being overrun by illegal immigrants. Illegals all want a place
to live, water to drink and cook and bathe in, electricity to power their lights and TV. They also use the roads and highways and they don't want to pay a penny of tax to help pay for any of this. Nobody even mentions the fact that the health status of all these people is not being checked by anyone. We had pretty much eliminated TB in this country until illegals brought it back. Thats not the only health problems they bring with them. They want medical care when they are sick...I don't blame them for that..They want schooling for their kids and if the house they are living in catches on fire they want the fire department to come and help them and put out the fire. These are all paid for by local taxes. A strong element of illegals are criminals..they murder people, shoot people down on the street and bring an element of lawlessness into local neighborhoods.

Why isn't our Federal government who is responsible for these people being here, why don't they do something? The Feds seem to be very attuned to the problems of the illegals but nobody seems to give a snap for the problems of the communities they invade and the disruption they cause local neighborhoods.

If I commit a traffic offense and a cop stops me he asks me to produce my drivers license, my car registration and my proof of insurance.
I guess we could safely call these my "documents".. He gives me a ticket because I commited a traffic violation, not because of my race or gender. If at the same time that cop sees I have an open bottle of booze, or a gun, or some pot or cocaine in the car with me, he may
arrest me and he does so legally and under existing law. Why should Latinos be exempt from having to function under the same laws the rest of us do?

We have all had it up to "here" with the crime, the drug dealers, the illegals who are despoiling our National Parks with their big Pot farms and the gang violence in our cities, the drive by shootings and murders. The people of Arizona are sick and tired of this too. Im all for them. I think they need more help than some guy who might be arrested because he is acting in a suspicious way...maybe waving a gun or a machete around and threatning people. The Feds keep telling us they will do something but they do nothing. They tell us about
some one may get "profiled"...well what about a citizen who may get killed??? What about the rights of those of us who pay taxes and
pay for National Parks that are now being turned into illegal drug farms.

Im just fed up with all the whining about the "rights" of people who are not even US Citizens!!! I support Arizona and Texas too if they enact the laws they are threatning to pass.

Geri

[Garianne]

Geri,

While sympathizing with your anger which is extremely well placed, the problem we are all up against is the fact that the Latino voting block is huge and that is precisely why the politicians won't touch this with a ten foot pole. That is why Arizona is to be commended for trying to at least do what is right. All we can do is support the effort, keep officers and citizens safe and try to figure the next step that will bring justice to all concerned.

[bfloomis]

Hmmm....See it looks like you are being both rude and patronizing. You have left Brad out.

He can be rude and patronizing to me another time.... :)

[Garianne]

[lorry]

He can be rude and patronizing to me another time.... :)

I learned many years ago to never take small-minded/childish spouting seriously...I just consider the source. VBG

It always comes back to bite such people in the a**! Never fails! Just takes a while with some more than others.

[lorry]

Repeal the 14th Amendment? Are you serious or just bigoted and stupid?

Sorry you can't understand our "legal" process to address our Constitution, Jeff. One has to "repeal" a full amendment in order to "add a corrected amendment." Amendments are not like laws/rules, etc. that can be "partially" changed. Most people understand how the process works. Didn't think I had to spell it out step by step for Americans who are seriously American, thus are very cognizant of the process. I learned our Constitution processes in grammar school, starting in 4th grade and by the 8th grade knew the history, processes, had memorized the Preamble, Bill of Rights and all amendments and much more.

As an American, I strongly feel that American citizens "always" come before illegal entrants that have come into our country! We always have to "fix" stupid stuff done by "do gooders" who are so short-sighted they only see as far as their nose and do things that are pointedly narrow focused which always, in the long run, screw up the over-all future. This citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil is a perfect example of short-sightedness of past Congressional actions. Anyone in a leadership position will only be successful if they understand one never passes rules, laws, etc., for "immediate," single-purpose reasons. I would have thought you might have figured that out by now.

[DanWoods]

We always have to "fix" stupid stuff done by "do gooders" who are so short-sighted they only see as far as their nose and do things that are pointedly narrow focused which always, in the long run, screw up the over-all future. This citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil is a perfect example of short-sightedness of past Congressional actions.

This is interesting. How would you go about giving citizenship to former slaves when slavery ended? Assuming you wanted to stick with your definition of citizenship that requires at least one parent to be a citizen.

[DanWoods]

As an American, I strongly feel that American citizens "always" come before illegal entrants that have come into our country!

Should American citizens have to carry a birth certificate at all times or risk imprisonment and possible deportation?

[terijef]

Sorry you can't understand our "legal" process to address our Constitution, Jeff. One has to "repeal" a full amendment in order to "add a corrected amendment." Amendments are not like laws/rules, etc. that can be "partially" changed. Most people understand how the process works. Didn't think I had to spell it out step by step for Americans who are seriously American, thus are very cognizant of the process. I learned our Constitution processes in grammar school, starting in 4th grade and by the 8th grade knew the history, processes, had memorized the Preamble, Bill of Rights and all amendments and much more.

As an American, I strongly feel that American citizens "always" come before illegal entrants that have come into our country! We always have to "fix" stupid stuff done by "do gooders" who are so short-sighted they only see as far as their nose and do things that are pointedly narrow focused which always, in the long run, screw up the over-all future. This citizenship to anyone born on U.S. soil is a perfect example of short-sightedness of past Congressional actions. Anyone in a leadership position will only be successful if they understand one never passes rules, laws, etc., for "immediate," single-purpose reasons. I would have thought you might have figured that out by now.

These stupid "do-gooders" who are so short-sighted they only see as far as their nose, etc., etc were doing what was asked of them by A. Lincoln before he was assassinated. Since you appear to think your intellect superior to Lincoln's in the long run scheme of what is good for America, I disagree and will support the ideas of Lincoln. The 14th Amendment has done just fine for well over 100 years without someone like you "correcting it" for the immediate and single purpose of protecting your superior rights to other human beings.

[FiveBays]

I'd like some clarification. Don't all of you have a problem with people coming here illegally and having children who become citizens by right of birth no part how their parents got here? If this is supported by the 14th amendment, please explain.

Dave

[lorry]

This is interesting. How would you go about giving citizenship to former slaves when slavery ended? Assuming you wanted to stick with your definition of citizenship that requires at least one parent to be a citizen.

Didn't say that!

[lorry]

These stupid "do-gooders" who are so short-sighted they only see as far as their nose, etc., etc were doing what was asked of them by A. Lincoln before he was assassinated. Since you appear to think your intellect superior to Lincoln's in the long run scheme of what is good for America, I disagree and will support the ideas of Lincoln. The 14th Amendment has done just fine for well over 100 years without someone like you "correcting it" for the immediate and single purpose of protecting your superior rights to other human beings.

Better read the 14th Amendment, Jeff. And you need not waste your nasty insinuations on me...I figure you out a long time ago!

AMENDMENT XIV

CITIZENSHIP, REPRESENTATION, and PAYMENT OF PUBLIC DEBT

Citizenship

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Hmmm...it is the very first 3 words about becoming a citizen by virtue of just being born on USA soil that are now problematic! I feel strongly that when this amendment was passed it was never anticipated that those first 3 words would cause the problems we have today...all it would have taken was to add "All persons born 'of two parents who are citizens'..." and we would not have the unforeseen problem of today. Anything addressing the slaves of the day should have been handled totally separately, since that was a one-time situation. Hindsight is always 20/20, but we must always be open to correcting these kinds of gross errors when realizing the impact said errors have when the world around us changes.

I take it then that you support putting so-called "rights" of illegal entrants who have broken our laws by entering our country illegally over the rights of citizens, whether natural or having gone through the "LEGAL" process of becoming a citizen. In either case we are back to "legal" citizens which abide by our laws and we are back to the fact that the wording in this Amendment has very bad consequences being impacted on our country at this time. Again, I'm quite sure today's mess was not foreseen by the authors of this amendment, but does show that my statement that one has to be very, very careful when making laws/rules, etc. is dead on! That lesson is one that should be learned by anyone in leadership position, no matter what that position is.

My original posting on this issue was "in general," but since you are the one who brought up the Amendment, perhaps someone here can state how changing the meaning and current impact of the first 3 words of Amendment XIV could be handled. In retrospect, would a "clarifying" law work since it would just "clarify" the meaning of those first 3 words or would, indeed, this Amendment need to be rescinded and a replacement added. Could both be done in one action, since it would have to either be passed by 2/3rd (if I remember correctly) of the States? I vaguely remember something about Congress being able to pass an amendment with a significant percentage of approval votes, too.

In any case, my original point was that our current "interpretation" of the law(s) covering citizen approval is causing this country huge problems which are endangering our country of being drawn down to 3rd world classification if we don't do something about it. I would think that any and all "legal" immigrants would also be up in arms about the "illegal" immigrants.

This post has been edited by lorry: May 4 2010, 02:36 PM

[Boss Mare]

Geri,

While sympathizing with your anger which is extremely well placed, the problem we are all up against is the fact that the Latino voting block is huge and that is precisely why the politicians won't touch this with a ten foot pole. That is why Arizona is to be commended for trying to at least do what is right. All we can do is support the effort, keep officers and citizens safe and try to figure the next step that will bring justice to all concerned.

That is about the poorest reason for the Federal government to not take any action to stop the onslaught that I can imagine. When American citizens are being kidnapped, gunned down on the streets, beaten up and terrorized by gangs like M13, or other thugs and criminals and its the responsibility of the Federal government to do something, they turn a blind eye because the Latino voting block might be inclined to not vote for them. Personally I don't think US Citizens of Latino descent like being victims of criminals any better than the rest of us do. The ones I know tell me they don't like it and I think they are telling the truth.

How can we even hope to keep citizens safe when criminals are pouring over the border in droves? Phoenix, a beautiful city, is now the kidnap capitol of the US. Are we thinking the folks being kidnapped are only the other criminals?

The drive by shooters, just kill everyone they see...men, women, children...anyone who happens to be standing outside of their house when those thugs drive by.
Small children, babies, grandmothers... If the police are fortunate enough to catch these men, they are deported but they come right back over the border and take up where they left off. More and bigger drive by shootings.

Local communities are overwhlemed by these illegals. Making them instant citizens will not change their behavior. They have little or no
regard for law..Do we really think giving them instant citizenship will reform their criminal inclinations?? The first law they broke was coming over the border without proper regard for the laws governing immigration and the second crime and etc. is staying here, driving without liscenses, drug trafficing, kidnapping, extorting, robbing, etc.

Profiling is way down the list on my list of priorities. When they do something about securing our borders, cleaning up the criminal
activity and violence, then we will worry about profiling. Almost all American citizens carry some kind of identification on their person most of the time so if they are stopped for traffic violations, for example, they can easily identify themselves.


Am I wrong???


Geri

[FiveBays]

Obama and co are looking at the illegals made citizens under amnesty as a huge voting block that would give them a lock on power.

Dave