Interesting Horse-what Am I Missing? Options

[clipclopalong]

[size="3"][/size] His name is Junior and he is an 8 year old Lippett Morgan gelding. He stands 14.1. Jules bought him when he was a 2 year old even though his barn name was Satan. But Jules said she saw something in him and brought him home. Over the next 5 years several people tried to help "train" Junior but they gave up rather quickly and so he learned that he could push peoples buttons and then be left alone. Jules was able to trailride him but in the ring all he would do is buck.....and kick.....and buck some more.

In March we came on the scene. My first instinct is to get control of the situation and my daughter was game for the trial. So she climbed on him and I stood in the middle with the lounge whip. Everytime he started bucking I went after him to make him go forward. The first week was dismal but within 2 weeks he was working all three gaits as long as I was there with the loungewhip. We started trying to find everything he did even remotely good to praise him for. I really think horses become what we think of them and all Junior ever heard was negativity. Jules is the kind of person that is easily frustrated and the two had a push pull kind of relationship going on. After awhile Junior needed a new rider because he and Erin had reached a place where she didn't hope for much and she had broken her tailbone riding the bucks so she needed not to ride him. So I put Jules on him and for awhile they seemed to be doing really well. After awhile however I saw that Jules was losing patience with him and the push pull was starting up again. Well now I feel like they are going backwards. I suggested to Jules that she find a trailrider that would like him and let him go. She was angry I even suggested that. So now what am I missing? She did go to a show with him and got some ribbons too. I told her that at the show he might see the reasoning behind the ring work and come along more in his training. He had the best canter in the class but at home you have to pull teeth to get him into the canter.

He only has one physical problem that we see. He always has to urinate when he is ridden. But all his levels are normal and his blood tests are too. But even a 10 minutes workout has him crossing his legs. What could that be?

[meddy75422]

Have you tried a chiropractor? He may be out of adjustment. Check for pain! Bute him and see if he is any better.

[clipclopalong]

We had the chiropractor several times for him. He was actually hurting himself with all he bucking and kicking out. He goes fine out on the trail, still is a "bratty pony" type but he goes willingly there. I keep thinking he just has alot of "stinking thinking" going on but do you think he can learn to be better or is there a cutoff point where you are wasting your time trying to get a horse to be better? I used to think that all horses were trainable and that their problems were all human related. Now I am not so sure. I think it is possible that some horses just enjoy being miserable and I think Junior enjoys the battle too much to want to go right.

[clipclopalong]

I am going to try the bute. It certainly can't hurt now can it? My daughter has a giant horse, a Dutch Warmblood with EPSM that we have been mixing and matching remedies with and he is doing really good. Ruling out pain is a good start.

[horsedoctor]

[/size] His name is Junior and he is an 8 year old Lippett Morgan gelding. He stands 14.1. Jules bought him when he was a 2 year old even though his barn name was Satan. But Jules said she saw something in him and brought him home. Over the next 5 years several people tried to help "train" Junior but they gave up rather quickly and so he learned that he could push peoples buttons and then be left alone. Jules was able to trailride him but in the ring all he would do is buck.....and kick.....and buck some more.

In March we came on the scene. My first instinct is to get control of the situation and my daughter was game for the trial. So she climbed on him and I stood in the middle with the lounge whip. Everytime he started bucking I went after him to make him go forward. The first week was dismal but within 2 weeks he was working all three gaits as long as I was there with the loungewhip. We started trying to find everything he did even remotely good to praise him for. I really think horses become what we think of them and all Junior ever heard was negativity. Jules is the kind of person that is easily frustrated and the two had a push pull kind of relationship going on. After awhile Junior needed a new rider because he and Erin had reached a place where she didn't hope for much and she had broken her tailbone riding the bucks so she needed not to ride him. So I put Jules on him and for awhile they seemed to be doing really well. After awhile however I saw that Jules was losing patience with him and the push pull was starting up again. Well now I feel like they are going backwards. I suggested to Jules that she find a trailrider that would like him and let him go. She was angry I even suggested that. So now what am I missing? She did go to a show with him and got some ribbons too. I told her that at the show he might see the reasoning behind the ring work and come along more in his training. He had the best canter in the class but at home you have to pull teeth to get him into the canter.

He only has one physical problem that we see. He always has to urinate when he is ridden. But all his levels are normal and his blood tests are too. But even a 10 minutes workout has him crossing his legs. What could that be?

[size="3"] His name is Junior and he is an 8 year old Lippett Morgan gelding. He stands 14.1. Jules bought him when he was a 2 year old even though his barn name was Satan. But Jules said she saw something in him and brought him home. Over the next 5 years several people tried to help "train" Junior but they gave up rather quickly and so he learned that he could push peoples buttons and then be left alone. Jules was able to trailride him but in the ring all he would do is buck.....and kick.....and buck some more.

In March we came on the scene. My first instinct is to get control of the situation and my daughter was game for the trial. So she climbed on him and I stood in the middle with the lounge whip. Everytime he started bucking I went after him to make him go forward. The first week was dismal but within 2 weeks he was working all three gaits as long as I was there with the loungewhip. We started trying to find everything he did even remotely good to praise him for. I really think horses become what we think of them and all Junior ever heard was negativity. Jules is the kind of person that is easily frustrated and the two had a push pull kind of relationship going on. After awhile Junior needed a new rider because he and Erin had reached a place where she didn't hope for much and she had broken her tailbone riding the bucks so she needed not to ride him. So I put Jules on him and for awhile they seemed to be doing really well. After awhile however I saw that Jules was losing patience with him and the push pull was starting up again. Well now I feel like they are going backwards. I suggested to Jules that she find a trailrider that would like him and let him go. She was angry I even suggested that. So now what am I missing? She did go to a show with him and got some ribbons too. I told her that at the show he might see the reasoning behind the ring work and come along more in his training. He had the best canter in the class but at home you have to pull teeth to get him into the canter.

He only has one physical problem that we see. He always has to urinate when he is ridden. But all his levels are normal and his blood tests are too. But even a 10 minutes workout has him crossing his legs. What could that be?

Bladder stone?

[clipclopalong]

That is an interesting thought.....I'll ask the vet about that. Would that be an ongoing condition?

[horsedoctor]

That is an interesting thought.....I'll ask the vet about that. Would that be an ongoing condition?

If it doesn't pass or dissolve, it would be.

[Thunderstruck504]

Two trains of thought:

1) Are you giving the horse some time off after his chiropractic adjustments? Have you considered massage therapy? If he has been out for some time, the muscles need to be "retrained" due to the fact that they have been in spasms. Also, if he is continually out of adjustment, his issue may be stemming from elsewhere (hip, stifle, etc). Does the saddle fit? Some horses (mine included) can have a rather violent reaction to an ill-fitting saddle.

2) Some horses just hate ring work. As kind a boy as mine is, he will buck my butt off if I force him to ride in circles. He HATES it. I don't know why...that's just the way he is. He does best on the trail with friends. He has never even attempted a buck on the trail.

Those are just my personal experiences. I hope we can help answer some of your questions and concerns on this board. When a horse has a behavior issue, I tend to look at the medical aspect first and most often, that is where the problem lies. Best of luck and let us know if you find anything.

[clipclopalong]

Yes, I think he has learned behaviors aquired over a lifetime. He does do well on the trail. His owner is a vet tech and she does massage on him all the time. She is going to another small show tomorrow and we will see what he learns then. I do think he makes himself sore with all the bucking. but this last week he has been doing better.